WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 21, 2022

Listener comments!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Tecontonaloggers!
	🤖 6:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: I'm here! Hi Mark and friends.
	6:01pm DanFA: Hello Mark. I've been looking forward to this interview for a while.
	🤖 6:01pm herb.nyc: hola! Sex on the show? oh, it's david SAX. never mind.
	6:01pm Wind: Mark! Welcome
	6:01pm Rolando: The future is A N A L O G !
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons! First, you have to accept that the analog future is both a particle and a wave.
	6:02pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Though we ourselves are a very diverse bunch with diverse tastes, speaking as an autistic person who's met people, I'm sceptical of what he'll mean by 'human'. The less I'm physically with people, the happier and more relaxed I am. Most humans are spiritually more like the villagers in a movie about Frankenstein 's Creature than anything else, and it takes a lot less than throwing a little girl in a lake to make them happily reach for the torches and pitch-forks. (Or maybe it's the recent anniversary of Kristallnacht setting me off….) I like the natural world too, but I want the option to retreat from it right quick.
	6:02pm wenzo toad: Howdy
	🤖 6:02pm Karl Ward: The analog future is counterintuitively made up of tiny subatomic digital futures
	🤖 6:02pm Karl Ward: I have already said too much
	6:03pm DanFA: Who's listening on Alexa?
	6:04pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniacs!
	6:05pm Glistener MW: Congrats on 250!!!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	🤖 6:05pm Analog Nights: Analog!
	6:05pm listener James from Westwood: Many congrats! A vital corpus indeed!
	6:05pm Old Dave: Congrats on this milestone, Mark
	6:07pm melinda: hi friends
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Analog radio listeners! (whoever you are)
	🤖 6:08pm Anna Log: Greetings, Mark and breadwinners! 🍞
	6:09pm (((Murakami Whywolf): The Future is never just one thing, because reality is more complicated than any of our ideas, including the reified ones for which we can use the word 'thing'.
	6:09pm The Count of Al Dente: The fact is, it is absolutely necessary for humans to be able to socialize in person, when desired. Computers are great as a tool, but they're not meant to be totally absorbed in.
	6:10pm melinda: nice cover
	6:10pm DanFA: Does this means David has made Friend of the Show status?
	6:10pm Carmichael: Everything Everywhere All At Once
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Hi Mark and all!
	6:11pm The Count of Al Dente: How about simultaneously broadcasting this show over shortwave?
	🤖 6:11pm PaulRobeson1922: Shortwave!!!!
	6:12pm Cooh John: Hello Mark and technoids.
	6:13pm TDK60: Analog is hip again? It's okay to copy the show to cassette?
	6:14pm Juli: Makes me want to cry.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining!
	6:15pm Juli: So sad to not be able to be together!
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: Only TDK cassettes are truly hip...
	6:16pm Dean: Nakamichi tapes were the shit back in the day.
	🤖 6:17pm Folsom: also need type IV tape
	6:17pm ultradamno: Co-sign TDK superiority
	6:18pm Juli: Analog forever!~ Music always I want to play everything by hand lol like amps and bells and everything to tape tbh then to computer to edit lol I like playing w others so much too and vinyl and tape sound so great: sound: anyway yes analog everything
	6:18pm ultradamno: (then BASF, then Maxell)
	6:18pm disco_nap_: The images for this show are just always so good!
	🤖 6:19pm Bas NL: I must have hundreds of TDK cassettes in my house..
	6:19pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Karl Ward: It just occurred to me, as it should have done years ago, that the people who want this universe to be a machine-simulation, in the backs of their minds, want this as a way of restoring classical physics to fundamental reality, so they can explain-away quantum effects as just weirdness induced by the non-zero granularity and time-lapse between steps of the simulation.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: @disco_nap_ thanks - I picked them just for you (and other listeners who keep an eye on them...)
	6:19pm disco_nap_: One of the many reasons I got DJ Arb's DJ premium from last Spring. Analog-only just feels more special. I enjoy the ritual of opening the package, looking at the artwork, etc. :)
	🤖 6:20pm Wendy del Formaggio: This conversation is reminding me of two books, the first I finished a few weeks ago and LOOOOVED, and the second I'm currently reading and am loving. "Feral City" by Jeremiah Moss wwnorton.com... And "A Paradise Built in Hell" by Rebecca Solnit. www.rebeccasolnit.net...
	🤖 6:20pm Will thee Sound Guy: been listening, cooking... hi Mark Hust, David Sax, and all!!!
	🤖 6:21pm Folsom: I was always a BASF fan, the ones with the arms inside
	6:21pm ultradamno: Back to silent movies!
	🤖 6:21pm DjLorraine: Grounding
	🤖 6:21pm MarciB: Looking forward to reading this book - I loved "The Revenge of Analog" - and yes @Wendy-also have JM's book on my reading list.
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1922: “Long Hikes” is euphemism for somthing?
	6:21pm Jackie G: And analog is just more fun. Doncha think?
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1922: Mr.soul
	6:22pm Dean: My connection to the world beyond the screen is not nature, but poetry, literature. Nature is double-edged.
	6:22pm Rolando: Reading is a n a l o g and it's also "time travel" :)
	🤖 6:22pm PaulRobeson1922: Universal Mind
	6:22pm Dean: And "place travel," absolutely.
	6:23pm disco_nap_: Animals are really good for this, too. My cats remind me constantly to stay mindful and curious. It's fascinating to watch them explore.
	🤖 6:24pm MarciB: I was in New Haven CT this weekend and was thrilled to see not only many book stores but also record stores! We have neither in my NYC neighborhood sadly.
	6:24pm Jackie G: Fakir - Eastern ascetic
	6:24pm Juli: WE can meet on screens more possibly But we need the physical realm much much much much mcuh infinity more
	🤖 6:24pm Wendy del Formaggio: Douglas Rushkoff's "Survival of the Richest" hits on some of these themes, too. I love that so many people are writing books about how we connect during disasters and otherwise, and how important it is -- it makes me feel better about the world. It's a spiritual thing without having to be based in organized religion.
	🤖 6:25pm Bas NL: I was at a concert yesterday. Show them my barcode. "No man, we scan nothing here. What's your name?" And I bought an actual cassette tape of one of the bands. Go analog!
	6:25pm Juli: Weird no. Do not like. Lol that is exactly what he did.
	6:25pm TDK60: Techie propagandists ignore the anthropologists or sociologists who told us we're social animals.
	6:26pm ultradamno: Oh, no. People actually being here is not the better thing.
	6:26pm HyperDose: Should have spent all that money on building a tardis instead
	6:27pm Juli: Lol Ultradamno not at all moments we all need space I need a f ton
	6:27pm Dean: From time to time I recommend this book to Mark and his listeners: Times of the Technoculture. https://www.routledge.com/Times-of-the-Technoculture-From-the-Information-Society-to-the-Virtual/Robins-Webster/p/book/9780415161169 Look at the publication date: 1999.
	6:27pm Jeff Moore: As a child, I always hated being forced into the out-of-doors by my parents. It was uncomfortable and annoying out there, partly because of the bugs and dirt, but largely because there were other children out there, and They Are Often Uncivilized Monsters. I wasn't addicted to screens, tho – it wasn't that time – I just wanted to get back to the bliss of reading books.
	6:27pm Carmichael: Does this mean astral projection is out??
	6:27pm Dean: Good discussion of Ludditism among other topics still relevant.
	🤖 6:28pm PaulRobeson1922: “You shall have no other G-Ds before me…” The promotion of one deity, even a technological one, requires the trivialization of all others
	🤖 6:29pm MarciB: @Jeff I hear you. My sisters bestowed the nickname "Bookworm" on me since I preferred to read rather than play outside!
	6:29pm Pax: Hello host Mark Hurst.
	🤖 6:30pm PaulRobeson1922: Pax! I’m wondering, How is work goin?
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @Jeff Moore and @Dean I'll join you in that thought, that reading can be a healthy escape just like (for others) a walk in nature does the trick. I'm good with either, or ideally, both...
	6:30pm New Guy: I don't care for this particular book Im afraid At all
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @Pax hello!
	6:31pm The Count of Al Dente: What those people are marketing is convenience devices, not anything we really need, for the most part.
	6:31pm TimSF: I read David Sax's Revenge...one thing that sold me on this guy: two of his favorites (mine also) D'Angelo's Black Messiah and Ghostface Killah's Sour Soul. great interview; thank you Mark.
	🤖 6:31pm herb.nyc: RELATED - book "who's raising the kids?" by susan linn. nyt book review, nov 13, has an article.
	6:31pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Jeff Moore: The same here. Buried in my usual over-verbiage, my original point is that there are many varieties of human being, and making nature walks and socialising The Only Right Way to Be doesn't sit well with all of us.
	6:31pm tim from washington: Hi Mark and everybody! At the risk of sounding self-righteous, all of the epiphanies about spending time away from the screen seems kind of sad that it took a situation like the pandemic to come to this realization. We were free to “break away” from the screen or in my case engage with it sporadically. Instead of feeling hope from this story it seems sad that some are so enmeshed in a lifestyle that they chain themselves to the screen. For me my analog present is physical media, riding bikes, going to the library and even just spacing out. Am I being a dick?
	6:32pm Sam: Amazon sucks, Google blows, Uber eats.
	🤖 6:33pm PaulRobeson1922: 1/3 of America has attended university 2/3 will never attend (valid statistic as of 2014)
	6:33pm New Guy: I see people walking their dogs. Face glued at night to the screen. They're addicted! So sad :(
	6:33pm Mark Hurst: @Murakami I think David's point isn't that there's "one true way," but rather that what Silicon Valley is selling us (screens screens screens) is not the path. Like me he's definitely a book & bookstore lover, as he notes in - I think - all three books of his that we've talked about on the show.
	6:33pm Jackie G: Isn't staring at a book all day comparable to staring at a screen all day? Important to get outside on occasion. Our grandparents were right in telling us to go outside and get some fresh air
	6:34pm Mark Hurst: @New Guy agreed... even sadder is when I see parents leading a toddler by the hand... toddler looking up at the parent, while the parent's attention is fully directed to their phone..
	6:34pm Pax: Hey PR1922: it's been a long while since you asked me that question. Is there a specific way I'm suppose to answer it.
	6:35pm Miss G: I missed the first half hour, but I'm interested in the comments about being a non nature-loving child (severe allergies) and a book worm. As I got older, I did train myself to get out into nature, and I'm glad. TBC
	6:36pm Miss G: I was on internet chat boards from the beginning, and I "met" people from all over the world, with my interests. I made sure to try to meet them in person (because I had an apt in NYC.) But, I feel like I lacked in meeting people in my town. And when times get tough. . .the people around you, not the ones on the internet, are "there for you."
	6:36pm Jackie G: New Guy and Mark Hurst: that drives me crazy. Why do you have a dog, or a child, if you can't devote some time ONLY to them?
	6:36pm Dean: Both Biblical words...
	🤖 6:37pm Handy Haversack: Screeds and Jeremiads is the working title for my memoir.
	6:37pm New Guy: Either one can put the screen away without a panic attack, for at least 6 hours, or, one is addicted. It's ok. Right now the addiction is running around 95 percent. I'm just as guilty.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: @Jackie exactly!
	6:37pm ultradamno: That's why you get a cat. You WILL spend time only on them, they will see to it.
	6:38pm kla: so of they did make a profit, wouldn't that be worse? Consider Amazon providing free shipping -- doesn't that contribute to inflation as they mark up the prices to make up the diff?
	6:39pm New Guy: But I will also call addiction, addiction. By design of course. That part of it isn't sad, it's evil at work.
	6:40pm Rolando: We reject Silicon Valley and their predatory model of data collection and subtle mind programming as well as government social engineering.
	6:40pm Dean: Another old book rec, 1991, Hurwitz's The Irony of Regulatory Reform. https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-irony-of-regulatory-reform-9780195069990 Hurwitz explores the history of the regulation of telecommunications, which obviously implicates Wall Street.
	6:40pm HyperDose: Absentee parenting drives me crazy too, Mark. Why did you have chillens if you're just going to ignore them?
	6:40pm Miss G: I have a book I bought but sadly didn't read yet, Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha "Beyond Survival" and she is neurodiverse and spoke in an article, about being known in her local coffee shop. That seemed to me to be a good strategy. (Yeah, in Richmond I think we have a new delivery co-op. I rarely use delivery for food so I don't know much about it.)
	6:41pm Sam: Restaurants should just not deliver, period. You have to come pick up your own damn food. We’ll cook it for you, you bring it home yourself.
	6:41pm Miss G: richmondbizsense.com...
	6:42pm Dean: The opposite of absentee parenting can be a disaster, too. I recall taking my daughter to her new preschool orientation. A parent of one of her peers asked in all seriousness how the program will help his child get admitted into an Ivy League university.
	6:43pm HyperDose: Agreed, Dean. Those people are insane.
	6:44pm Jeff Moore: @MarciB, @ (((Murakami Whywolf): Yes! There are those of us for whom The Healthy Hike or while young Roughhousing With The Other Kids hold no appeal at all. Yeah, I feel better after taking an occasional stroll to break up an overly-sedentary day, but to me the purposeful activity of hiking some trail in the woods is purely a chore one sometimes gets roped into through peer pressure rather than something I'd actually look forward to and do on purpose. I'm trying to remember having been on a hike without spending most of the time wondering when it would be over.
	🤖 6:44pm Wendy del Formaggio: Sam: No. When you say restaurants should never deliver, you're forgetting or disregarding people who are house-bound for whatever reason. Disabled, pregnant, caring for others, etc.
	6:45pm The Count of Al Dente: I've come across these two: Delivery.coop, loco.coop,
	6:45pm ultradamno: Yeah, meals off wheels doesn't have the same ring to it.
	6:46pm castor: Co-ops go back to the mid-1800's, as a way to fight capitalism. I've been a member of the 4th street coop in Manhattan for 12 years, its a precious institution going back to the 70's! It has its challenges tho, especially regarding diffusion of responsibility. But it also can allow for more direct action.
	🤖 6:46pm PaulRobeson1922: How much is a Uber Eats
	6:48pm HyperDose: Just walk to 7-11 and get an affordable pizza like a real adult
	6:48pm New Guy: Honk if you check your phone at red lights! [ honk ]
	🤖 6:48pm PaulRobeson1922: The Future looks alot like what’s in yer hand
	🤖 6:49pm Folsom: I still like that pic of the jetsons asking what's at the bottom of the buildings and they show the flintstones
	6:49pm Pax: Another thing about parents do who aren't paying attention to there kids especially toddlers who can barely walk. And that is they walk to fast and the kid is struggling to keep up to the point where their trying not fall down. I can see it's hard as hell on the kid but the parent is oblivious to it or worse don't care.
	6:49pm Dean: Good site (ironic, I know) for information about city and county innovation: https://www.americancityandcounty.com/
	🤖 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: I guess I need to repeat myself. HyperDose, what about people who can't walk? Everyone, please check your ableism!
	6:49pm castor: Wish I could see Straight Line Crazy. We owe so much of this so-called "futuristic" ideology to Robert Moses. It's like his ghost still haunts our city and possesses its planners.
	🤖 6:49pm MarciB: When we order to-go food (it's rare since I love to cook), we always go pick it up. Just to get the walk in!
	6:49pm Juli: Beautiful interview.!
	6:49pm ultradamno: I was promised a world where people with blinking crystals on their palms were hunted down with rayguns
	6:50pm Miss G: For my first five years in Richmond, VA, I lived in such a food desert, that there was a community garden across the street, but they had a market once a week across the river at a spot where the underserved community had a super duper food desert. I didn't condemn that, but, sometimes when I couldn't get out, I was tempted to snitch a carrot. . .
	6:50pm melinda: thanks for bringing us some hope Mark
	6:50pm Jackie G: Book or no book, David Sax should return to Techtonic just for some lively discussion.
	6:51pm Pax: Correction "Thier" kids
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1922: A Johnson
	6:51pm Sam: The principal urbanist lesson of the 20th century was that modernism and technology are death to cities and everything that makes them great. Just notice how the nicest, most expensive urban neighborhoods are the oldest, most human-scaled ones, without lots of cars or mega blocks or blank grandiose buildings.
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: Everyone hates legs.
	6:52pm chris in the redwoods: oh, Jeff! wow! i remember walking a peak outside of Taos, NM. 10,000 feet above sea level in the middle of the country and there were shells embedded in the uphill wall of the path. seashells! new mexico at 10000 feet! natural history is amazing to me and along with flora and fauna, gets me high when i'm hiking. thanks for reminding me of the diversity of opinion we all have, i take it for gospel that hiking is wonderful.
	6:53pm Dean: But are they surrounding themselves with these sycophants in a meeting room, in person?
	6:53pm ultradamno: Well, apparently Trent Reznor made him (Musk) sad today
	🤖 6:53pm Elena: It would be great to do a future Techtonic show on the Fediverse, i.e. Mastodon
	6:53pm Sam: People want pocket parks, corner bars, town squares and pedestrian streets. Not drones and robots and cameras.
	6:53pm Fredericks: Can anyone help locate the anti-phone Bot phone Bot episode? I know Mark played part of the conversation fairly recently. Hoped to hear the whole thing.
	6:54pm TDK60: Good interview. Thanks, Mark.
	6:54pm lazy pierogi: a prescient story worth reading: The Machine Stops by E M Forster
	6:54pm joe mulligan: TRUTH! that's exactly why Second Life failed. nobody cared. that's also why Zoom skyrocketed during the pandemic
	6:55pm lazy pierogi: originally published in 1909!
	6:55pm Jeff Moore: @chris in the redwoods: Cool! I'm glad you had that experience, beautifully matched with your enjoyments!
	6:55pm Annette: Again Mark , thank you for caring so much
	6:56pm Miss G: Sam: shoe repair shops!!!!!!!! Thank you David Sax and thank you Mark Hurst!
	6:56pm Jeff Moore: "Mark and the Sycophants": not a good band.
	6:56pm HyperDose: High five Mark!
	🤖 6:56pm MarciB: This VF story is so righteous. I belong to another online community where all the guys were 100% into crypto and the meta verse. Most of the women in the group said "it's a scam", "no interest" etc.
	🤖 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: Thank you, Mark. As I've said before, your show is a mitzvah.
	6:57pm disco_nap_: See that’s the thing that incels like Mark Zuckerberg will never understand because they lack any basic human empathy or warmth of any kind
	🤖 6:57pm MarciB: Wonder how Zuckerberg's Spyware glasses are selling lol
	6:57pm Wind: 🙏🏽
	🤖 6:57pm Anna Log: www.wfmu.org... 10/23/2017, Fredericks? The Jolly Roger bot. Thanks, analog Mark.
	6:57pm joe mulligan: @ultradamno at 6:49p Identify!
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: Many thanks, Mark! And David! Detoxify!
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1922: Just look what’s in yer hand! Beacuse when it’s done & over, man is just a man! Baybeeee
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & David!
	6:58pm yippie: yeet yahoo
	6:58pm Pax: I hope so!
	6:58pm Jackie G: Thanks, Mark. You the best.
	6:58pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark and David.
	6:58pm Juli: Tyyyyyyyy
	6:59pm Hansie: Yesssssss!
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1922: Wasn’t it a bit like nowww🎵 Thanks, Mark! Tellin’ it like it is
	6:59pm New Guy: We could talk about paper and pencils
	6:59pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: Thank you Mark and David!!! be well everyone!!!
	🤖 7:00pm MarciB: Happy Thanksgiving all and thank you Mark!
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:03pm Miss G: (I didn't look it up as I'm rushing about) Mark did you ever do a show on fast fashion? I worked in the biz long ago and have read Dana Thomas, but this weekend I wore, to the Native American film festival, a plaid tunic that was from Target. And my friend asked me about it, I felt so guilty, and also, suppose someone at the festival asked me about it? Maybe children made it! So if there was a show, on how, to talk to young people who truly are cash-strapped, on why, fast fashion is not great. OK! Thank you!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 21, 2022

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 18th, 6pm - 7pm: Astronomer Samantha Lawler returns to Techtonic (More info...)
Thousands of Elon Musk's SpaceX satellites will re-enter Earth's atmosphere in the next few years, adding huge amounts of metals and chemicals to our atmosphere. Astronomer Samantha Lawler returns to Techtonic to explain why satellite "mega-constellations" are causing havoc for astronomers and will soon affect all life on earth.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

November 21, 2022: David Sax, author, "The Future is Analog"

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: David Sax, author, “The Future is Analog: How to Create a More Human World.”

• The Future Is Analog on Indiebound

• David’s first Techtonic appearance: May 14, 2018 discussing “The Revenge of Analog”

• David’s second Techtonic appearance: April 13, 2020 discussing “The Soul of an Entrepreneur”

• saxdavid.com: Author site

• From “Mark Has Surrounded Himself With Sycophants”: Zuckerberg’s Big Bet On The Metaverse Is Backfiring (by Nick Bilton in Vanity Fair, Nov 16, 2022):

The problem is—as everyone surmised at the time and still does today—no one wants to live in the metaverse. They don’t want to go to meetings in a virtual coffee shop on the moon; they don’t want to go on dates dressed as a digital porcupine on a virtual beach with a pink ocean; and they don’t want to exercise in a virtual outdoor space with their friends who live down the block.

If the pandemic taught us anything, it was that technology enables us to connect when we have no other way to reach people, but in reality, in-person connections are way more impactful and important than a digital genus. People want to experience real things now more than ever and—most importantly—they want to experience real people.

. . . “The problem now is that Mark has surrounded himself with sycophants, and for some reason he’s fallen for their vision of the future, which no one else is interested in,” the former Facebook executive told me. “In a previous era, someone would have been able to reason with Mark about the company’s direction, but that is no longer the case.”

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PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Album	Approx. start time
David Sax, author, "The Future is Analog"
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"	Machinarium Soundtrack
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with David Sax "Interview with David Sax"		0:06:33 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"		0:45:53 (MP3 \| Pop-up)
Waveshaper	Cabin Fever in Space "Cabin Fever in Space" by "Waveshaper"	Retro Future	0:54:36 (MP3 \| Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Tecontonaloggers!
	🤖 6:00pm Wendy del Formaggio: I'm here! Hi Mark and friends.
	6:01pm DanFA: Hello Mark. I've been looking forward to this interview for a while.
	🤖 6:01pm herb.nyc: hola! Sex on the show? oh, it's david SAX. never mind.
	6:01pm Wind: Mark! Welcome
	6:01pm Rolando: The future is A N A L O G !
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyons! First, you have to accept that the analog future is both a particle and a wave.
	6:02pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Though we ourselves are a very diverse bunch with diverse tastes, speaking as an autistic person who's met people, I'm sceptical of what he'll mean by 'human'. The less I'm physically with people, the happier and more relaxed I am. Most humans are spiritually more like the villagers in a movie about Frankenstein 's Creature than anything else, and it takes a lot less than throwing a little girl in a lake to make them happily reach for the torches and pitch-forks. (Or maybe it's the recent anniversary of Kristallnacht setting me off….) I like the natural world too, but I want the option to retreat from it right quick.
	6:02pm wenzo toad: Howdy
	🤖 6:02pm Karl Ward: The analog future is counterintuitively made up of tiny subatomic digital futures
	🤖 6:02pm Karl Ward: I have already said too much
	6:03pm DanFA: Who's listening on Alexa?
	6:04pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtoniacs!
	6:05pm Glistener MW: Congrats on 250!!!
	6:05pm TDK60: Hi Mark.
	🤖 6:05pm Analog Nights: Analog!
	6:05pm listener James from Westwood: Many congrats! A vital corpus indeed!
	6:05pm Old Dave: Congrats on this milestone, Mark
	6:07pm melinda: hi friends
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Analog radio listeners! (whoever you are)
	🤖 6:08pm Anna Log: Greetings, Mark and breadwinners! 🍞
	6:09pm (((Murakami Whywolf): The Future is never just one thing, because reality is more complicated than any of our ideas, including the reified ones for which we can use the word 'thing'.
	6:09pm The Count of Al Dente: The fact is, it is absolutely necessary for humans to be able to socialize in person, when desired. Computers are great as a tool, but they're not meant to be totally absorbed in.
	6:10pm melinda: nice cover
	6:10pm DanFA: Does this means David has made Friend of the Show status?
	6:10pm Carmichael: Everything Everywhere All At Once
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Hi Mark and all!
	6:11pm The Count of Al Dente: How about simultaneously broadcasting this show over shortwave?
	🤖 6:11pm PaulRobeson1922: Shortwave!!!!
	6:12pm Cooh John: Hello Mark and technoids.
	6:13pm TDK60: Analog is hip again? It's okay to copy the show to cassette?
	6:14pm Juli: Makes me want to cry.
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining!
	6:15pm Juli: So sad to not be able to be together!
	6:15pm Mark Hurst: Only TDK cassettes are truly hip...
	6:16pm Dean: Nakamichi tapes were the shit back in the day.
	🤖 6:17pm Folsom: also need type IV tape
	6:17pm ultradamno: Co-sign TDK superiority
	6:18pm Juli: Analog forever!~ Music always I want to play everything by hand lol like amps and bells and everything to tape tbh then to computer to edit lol I like playing w others so much too and vinyl and tape sound so great: sound: anyway yes analog everything
	6:18pm ultradamno: (then BASF, then Maxell)
	6:18pm disco_nap_: The images for this show are just always so good!
	🤖 6:19pm Bas NL: I must have hundreds of TDK cassettes in my house..
	6:19pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Karl Ward: It just occurred to me, as it should have done years ago, that the people who want this universe to be a machine-simulation, in the backs of their minds, want this as a way of restoring classical physics to fundamental reality, so they can explain-away quantum effects as just weirdness induced by the non-zero granularity and time-lapse between steps of the simulation.
	6:19pm Mark Hurst: @disco_nap_ thanks - I picked them just for you (and other listeners who keep an eye on them...)
	6:19pm disco_nap_: One of the many reasons I got DJ Arb's DJ premium from last Spring. Analog-only just feels more special. I enjoy the ritual of opening the package, looking at the artwork, etc. :)
	🤖 6:20pm Wendy del Formaggio: This conversation is reminding me of two books, the first I finished a few weeks ago and LOOOOVED, and the second I'm currently reading and am loving. "Feral City" by Jeremiah Moss wwnorton.com... And "A Paradise Built in Hell" by Rebecca Solnit. www.rebeccasolnit.net...
	🤖 6:20pm Will thee Sound Guy: been listening, cooking... hi Mark Hust, David Sax, and all!!!
	🤖 6:21pm Folsom: I was always a BASF fan, the ones with the arms inside
	6:21pm ultradamno: Back to silent movies!
	🤖 6:21pm DjLorraine: Grounding
	🤖 6:21pm MarciB: Looking forward to reading this book - I loved "The Revenge of Analog" - and yes @Wendy-also have JM's book on my reading list.
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1922: “Long Hikes” is euphemism for somthing?
	6:21pm Jackie G: And analog is just more fun. Doncha think?
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1922: Mr.soul
	6:22pm Dean: My connection to the world beyond the screen is not nature, but poetry, literature. Nature is double-edged.
	6:22pm Rolando: Reading is a n a l o g and it's also "time travel" :)
	🤖 6:22pm PaulRobeson1922: Universal Mind
	6:22pm Dean: And "place travel," absolutely.
	6:23pm disco_nap_: Animals are really good for this, too. My cats remind me constantly to stay mindful and curious. It's fascinating to watch them explore.
	🤖 6:24pm MarciB: I was in New Haven CT this weekend and was thrilled to see not only many book stores but also record stores! We have neither in my NYC neighborhood sadly.
	6:24pm Jackie G: Fakir - Eastern ascetic
	6:24pm Juli: WE can meet on screens more possibly But we need the physical realm much much much much mcuh infinity more
	🤖 6:24pm Wendy del Formaggio: Douglas Rushkoff's "Survival of the Richest" hits on some of these themes, too. I love that so many people are writing books about how we connect during disasters and otherwise, and how important it is -- it makes me feel better about the world. It's a spiritual thing without having to be based in organized religion.
	🤖 6:25pm Bas NL: I was at a concert yesterday. Show them my barcode. "No man, we scan nothing here. What's your name?" And I bought an actual cassette tape of one of the bands. Go analog!
	6:25pm Juli: Weird no. Do not like. Lol that is exactly what he did.
	6:25pm TDK60: Techie propagandists ignore the anthropologists or sociologists who told us we're social animals.
	6:26pm ultradamno: Oh, no. People actually being here is not the better thing.
	6:26pm HyperDose: Should have spent all that money on building a tardis instead
	6:27pm Juli: Lol Ultradamno not at all moments we all need space I need a f ton
	6:27pm Dean: From time to time I recommend this book to Mark and his listeners: Times of the Technoculture. https://www.routledge.com/Times-of-the-Technoculture-From-the-Information-Society-to-the-Virtual/Robins-Webster/p/book/9780415161169 Look at the publication date: 1999.
	6:27pm Jeff Moore: As a child, I always hated being forced into the out-of-doors by my parents. It was uncomfortable and annoying out there, partly because of the bugs and dirt, but largely because there were other children out there, and They Are Often Uncivilized Monsters. I wasn't addicted to screens, tho – it wasn't that time – I just wanted to get back to the bliss of reading books.
	6:27pm Carmichael: Does this mean astral projection is out??
	6:27pm Dean: Good discussion of Ludditism among other topics still relevant.
	🤖 6:28pm PaulRobeson1922: “You shall have no other G-Ds before me…” The promotion of one deity, even a technological one, requires the trivialization of all others
	🤖 6:29pm MarciB: @Jeff I hear you. My sisters bestowed the nickname "Bookworm" on me since I preferred to read rather than play outside!
	6:29pm Pax: Hello host Mark Hurst.
	🤖 6:30pm PaulRobeson1922: Pax! I’m wondering, How is work goin?
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @Jeff Moore and @Dean I'll join you in that thought, that reading can be a healthy escape just like (for others) a walk in nature does the trick. I'm good with either, or ideally, both...
	6:30pm New Guy: I don't care for this particular book Im afraid At all
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @Pax hello!
	6:31pm The Count of Al Dente: What those people are marketing is convenience devices, not anything we really need, for the most part.
	6:31pm TimSF: I read David Sax's Revenge...one thing that sold me on this guy: two of his favorites (mine also) D'Angelo's Black Messiah and Ghostface Killah's Sour Soul. great interview; thank you Mark.
	🤖 6:31pm herb.nyc: RELATED - book "who's raising the kids?" by susan linn. nyt book review, nov 13, has an article.
	6:31pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Jeff Moore: The same here. Buried in my usual over-verbiage, my original point is that there are many varieties of human being, and making nature walks and socialising The Only Right Way to Be doesn't sit well with all of us.
	6:31pm tim from washington: Hi Mark and everybody! At the risk of sounding self-righteous, all of the epiphanies about spending time away from the screen seems kind of sad that it took a situation like the pandemic to come to this realization. We were free to “break away” from the screen or in my case engage with it sporadically. Instead of feeling hope from this story it seems sad that some are so enmeshed in a lifestyle that they chain themselves to the screen. For me my analog present is physical media, riding bikes, going to the library and even just spacing out. Am I being a dick?
	6:32pm Sam: Amazon sucks, Google blows, Uber eats.
	🤖 6:33pm PaulRobeson1922: 1/3 of America has attended university 2/3 will never attend (valid statistic as of 2014)
	6:33pm New Guy: I see people walking their dogs. Face glued at night to the screen. They're addicted! So sad :(
	6:33pm Mark Hurst: @Murakami I think David's point isn't that there's "one true way," but rather that what Silicon Valley is selling us (screens screens screens) is not the path. Like me he's definitely a book & bookstore lover, as he notes in - I think - all three books of his that we've talked about on the show.
	6:33pm Jackie G: Isn't staring at a book all day comparable to staring at a screen all day? Important to get outside on occasion. Our grandparents were right in telling us to go outside and get some fresh air
	6:34pm Mark Hurst: @New Guy agreed... even sadder is when I see parents leading a toddler by the hand... toddler looking up at the parent, while the parent's attention is fully directed to their phone..
	6:34pm Pax: Hey PR1922: it's been a long while since you asked me that question. Is there a specific way I'm suppose to answer it.
	6:35pm Miss G: I missed the first half hour, but I'm interested in the comments about being a non nature-loving child (severe allergies) and a book worm. As I got older, I did train myself to get out into nature, and I'm glad. TBC
	6:36pm Miss G: I was on internet chat boards from the beginning, and I "met" people from all over the world, with my interests. I made sure to try to meet them in person (because I had an apt in NYC.) But, I feel like I lacked in meeting people in my town. And when times get tough. . .the people around you, not the ones on the internet, are "there for you."
	6:36pm Jackie G: New Guy and Mark Hurst: that drives me crazy. Why do you have a dog, or a child, if you can't devote some time ONLY to them?
	6:36pm Dean: Both Biblical words...
	🤖 6:37pm Handy Haversack: Screeds and Jeremiads is the working title for my memoir.
	6:37pm New Guy: Either one can put the screen away without a panic attack, for at least 6 hours, or, one is addicted. It's ok. Right now the addiction is running around 95 percent. I'm just as guilty.
	6:37pm Mark Hurst: @Jackie exactly!
	6:37pm ultradamno: That's why you get a cat. You WILL spend time only on them, they will see to it.
	6:38pm kla: so of they did make a profit, wouldn't that be worse? Consider Amazon providing free shipping -- doesn't that contribute to inflation as they mark up the prices to make up the diff?
	6:39pm New Guy: But I will also call addiction, addiction. By design of course. That part of it isn't sad, it's evil at work.
	6:40pm Rolando: We reject Silicon Valley and their predatory model of data collection and subtle mind programming as well as government social engineering.
	6:40pm Dean: Another old book rec, 1991, Hurwitz's The Irony of Regulatory Reform. https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-irony-of-regulatory-reform-9780195069990 Hurwitz explores the history of the regulation of telecommunications, which obviously implicates Wall Street.
	6:40pm HyperDose: Absentee parenting drives me crazy too, Mark. Why did you have chillens if you're just going to ignore them?
	6:40pm Miss G: I have a book I bought but sadly didn't read yet, Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha "Beyond Survival" and she is neurodiverse and spoke in an article, about being known in her local coffee shop. That seemed to me to be a good strategy. (Yeah, in Richmond I think we have a new delivery co-op. I rarely use delivery for food so I don't know much about it.)
	6:41pm Sam: Restaurants should just not deliver, period. You have to come pick up your own damn food. We’ll cook it for you, you bring it home yourself.
	6:41pm Miss G: richmondbizsense.com...
	6:42pm Dean: The opposite of absentee parenting can be a disaster, too. I recall taking my daughter to her new preschool orientation. A parent of one of her peers asked in all seriousness how the program will help his child get admitted into an Ivy League university.
	6:43pm HyperDose: Agreed, Dean. Those people are insane.
	6:44pm Jeff Moore: @MarciB, @ (((Murakami Whywolf): Yes! There are those of us for whom The Healthy Hike or while young Roughhousing With The Other Kids hold no appeal at all. Yeah, I feel better after taking an occasional stroll to break up an overly-sedentary day, but to me the purposeful activity of hiking some trail in the woods is purely a chore one sometimes gets roped into through peer pressure rather than something I'd actually look forward to and do on purpose. I'm trying to remember having been on a hike without spending most of the time wondering when it would be over.
	🤖 6:44pm Wendy del Formaggio: Sam: No. When you say restaurants should never deliver, you're forgetting or disregarding people who are house-bound for whatever reason. Disabled, pregnant, caring for others, etc.
	6:45pm The Count of Al Dente: I've come across these two: Delivery.coop, loco.coop,
	6:45pm ultradamno: Yeah, meals off wheels doesn't have the same ring to it.
	6:46pm castor: Co-ops go back to the mid-1800's, as a way to fight capitalism. I've been a member of the 4th street coop in Manhattan for 12 years, its a precious institution going back to the 70's! It has its challenges tho, especially regarding diffusion of responsibility. But it also can allow for more direct action.
	🤖 6:46pm PaulRobeson1922: How much is a Uber Eats
	6:48pm HyperDose: Just walk to 7-11 and get an affordable pizza like a real adult
	6:48pm New Guy: Honk if you check your phone at red lights! [ honk ]
	🤖 6:48pm PaulRobeson1922: The Future looks alot like what’s in yer hand
	🤖 6:49pm Folsom: I still like that pic of the jetsons asking what's at the bottom of the buildings and they show the flintstones
	6:49pm Pax: Another thing about parents do who aren't paying attention to there kids especially toddlers who can barely walk. And that is they walk to fast and the kid is struggling to keep up to the point where their trying not fall down. I can see it's hard as hell on the kid but the parent is oblivious to it or worse don't care.
	6:49pm Dean: Good site (ironic, I know) for information about city and county innovation: https://www.americancityandcounty.com/
	🤖 6:49pm Wendy del Formaggio: I guess I need to repeat myself. HyperDose, what about people who can't walk? Everyone, please check your ableism!
	6:49pm castor: Wish I could see Straight Line Crazy. We owe so much of this so-called "futuristic" ideology to Robert Moses. It's like his ghost still haunts our city and possesses its planners.
	🤖 6:49pm MarciB: When we order to-go food (it's rare since I love to cook), we always go pick it up. Just to get the walk in!
	6:49pm Juli: Beautiful interview.!
	6:49pm ultradamno: I was promised a world where people with blinking crystals on their palms were hunted down with rayguns
	6:50pm Miss G: For my first five years in Richmond, VA, I lived in such a food desert, that there was a community garden across the street, but they had a market once a week across the river at a spot where the underserved community had a super duper food desert. I didn't condemn that, but, sometimes when I couldn't get out, I was tempted to snitch a carrot. . .
	6:50pm melinda: thanks for bringing us some hope Mark
	6:50pm Jackie G: Book or no book, David Sax should return to Techtonic just for some lively discussion.
	6:51pm Pax: Correction "Thier" kids
	🤖 6:51pm PaulRobeson1922: A Johnson
	6:51pm Sam: The principal urbanist lesson of the 20th century was that modernism and technology are death to cities and everything that makes them great. Just notice how the nicest, most expensive urban neighborhoods are the oldest, most human-scaled ones, without lots of cars or mega blocks or blank grandiose buildings.
	🤖 6:51pm Handy Haversack: Everyone hates legs.
	6:52pm chris in the redwoods: oh, Jeff! wow! i remember walking a peak outside of Taos, NM. 10,000 feet above sea level in the middle of the country and there were shells embedded in the uphill wall of the path. seashells! new mexico at 10000 feet! natural history is amazing to me and along with flora and fauna, gets me high when i'm hiking. thanks for reminding me of the diversity of opinion we all have, i take it for gospel that hiking is wonderful.
	6:53pm Dean: But are they surrounding themselves with these sycophants in a meeting room, in person?
	6:53pm ultradamno: Well, apparently Trent Reznor made him (Musk) sad today
	🤖 6:53pm Elena: It would be great to do a future Techtonic show on the Fediverse, i.e. Mastodon
	6:53pm Sam: People want pocket parks, corner bars, town squares and pedestrian streets. Not drones and robots and cameras.
	6:53pm Fredericks: Can anyone help locate the anti-phone Bot phone Bot episode? I know Mark played part of the conversation fairly recently. Hoped to hear the whole thing.
	6:54pm TDK60: Good interview. Thanks, Mark.
	6:54pm lazy pierogi: a prescient story worth reading: The Machine Stops by E M Forster
	6:54pm joe mulligan: TRUTH! that's exactly why Second Life failed. nobody cared. that's also why Zoom skyrocketed during the pandemic
	6:55pm lazy pierogi: originally published in 1909!
	6:55pm Jeff Moore: @chris in the redwoods: Cool! I'm glad you had that experience, beautifully matched with your enjoyments!
	6:55pm Annette: Again Mark , thank you for caring so much
	6:56pm Miss G: Sam: shoe repair shops!!!!!!!! Thank you David Sax and thank you Mark Hurst!
	6:56pm Jeff Moore: "Mark and the Sycophants": not a good band.
	6:56pm HyperDose: High five Mark!
	🤖 6:56pm MarciB: This VF story is so righteous. I belong to another online community where all the guys were 100% into crypto and the meta verse. Most of the women in the group said "it's a scam", "no interest" etc.
	🤖 6:57pm Wendy del Formaggio: Thank you, Mark. As I've said before, your show is a mitzvah.
	6:57pm disco_nap_: See that’s the thing that incels like Mark Zuckerberg will never understand because they lack any basic human empathy or warmth of any kind
	🤖 6:57pm MarciB: Wonder how Zuckerberg's Spyware glasses are selling lol
	6:57pm Wind: 🙏🏽
	🤖 6:57pm Anna Log: www.wfmu.org... 10/23/2017, Fredericks? The Jolly Roger bot. Thanks, analog Mark.
	6:57pm joe mulligan: @ultradamno at 6:49p Identify!
	🤖 6:57pm Handy Haversack: Many thanks, Mark! And David! Detoxify!
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1922: Just look what’s in yer hand! Beacuse when it’s done & over, man is just a man! Baybeeee
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark & David!
	6:58pm yippie: yeet yahoo
	6:58pm Pax: I hope so!
	6:58pm Jackie G: Thanks, Mark. You the best.
	6:58pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark and David.
	6:58pm Juli: Tyyyyyyyy
	6:59pm Hansie: Yesssssss!
	🤖 6:59pm PaulRobeson1922: Wasn’t it a bit like nowww🎵 Thanks, Mark! Tellin’ it like it is
	6:59pm New Guy: We could talk about paper and pencils
	6:59pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: Thank you Mark and David!!! be well everyone!!!
	🤖 7:00pm MarciB: Happy Thanksgiving all and thank you Mark!
	7:01pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	7:03pm Miss G: (I didn't look it up as I'm rushing about) Mark did you ever do a show on fast fashion? I worked in the biz long ago and have read Dana Thomas, but this weekend I wore, to the Native American film festival, a plaid tunic that was from Target. And my friend asked me about it, I felt so guilty, and also, suppose someone at the festival asked me about it? Maybe children made it! So if there was a show, on how, to talk to young people who truly are cash-strapped, on why, fast fashion is not great. OK! Thank you!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 21, 2022

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